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Author Topic: Falsely accused and now banned????  (Read 1314 times)

Offline 3ll1ot

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Falsely accused and now banned????
« on: December 21, 2017, 01:50:24 PM »
Hi guys

Last night I was playing your HC server and "player was kicked" as I tried to rejoin it said I was permanently banned. Why have I been banned without warning?

Regards, Elliot

Offline ~FS~Goodshot

Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 04:56:13 PM »
All started November 29, 2017 PST.  You  ([Bm8]3ll1ot) and Someone7272 were both playing on our server using the same internet connection. On this day Someone7272 was recorded using a weapons fire enhancement which significantly increased his rate of fire, demo can be downloaded below this post. Weapon fire enhancements are not allowed on our server. Doesn't matter if the enhancement is from a peripheral device such as a mouse, a  mouse wheel attack bind, game controller or from a mod menu. Whatever it is, you're not allowed to use it on our server. Attack must be bound to a single click peripheral for it to be allowed on our server, no exceptions.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 05:10:42 PM by ~FS~Goodshot »

Offline ~FS~Goodshot

Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 04:59:38 PM »
On December 06, 2017 PST the community wanted to know if what you and Someone7272 were doing is allowed on our server. And BTW, what you guys were doing is considered cheating on our server. Whatever you guys were using, was not a double tap perk. Double tap is allowed on our server. Anyway, your response was that you were both fast clicking. Here is a copy of the chat log:

17-12-06 16:53:02   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   What is the policy on scroll fire?
17-12-06 16:53:37   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   good question but ir is a form of cheating
17-12-06 16:53:52   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    Is it a key bind or mod?
17-12-06 16:54:00   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   i click too fast
17-12-06 16:54:03   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Scroll wheel bind
17-12-06 16:54:20   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   no not really its using the scroll wheel to fire
17-12-06 16:54:25   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Usually implemented with a semi auto rifle for accuracy.
17-12-06 16:54:37   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:   Used to consider it cheating.. but dont know here.
17-12-06 16:54:47   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   And rate of fire increase turns your gun into a super accurate machine gun.
17-12-06 16:55:07   @31601 [Snowcomand] to ALL:   damn...lagggg
17-12-06 16:55:56   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    When in doubt... *shrug*
17-12-06 16:56:44   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   i would say that you may do so  but if another admin calls it listen to him
17-12-06 16:57:24   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   wheel binds are not legal here from what I've heard
17-12-06 16:57:56   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   double tap should be banned no?
17-12-06 16:58:08   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   that is a for of rapidfire right?
17-12-06 16:58:11   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   form*
17-12-06 16:58:13   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   double tap is an perk
17-12-06 16:58:18   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Not a bind.
17-12-06 16:58:27   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   yes
17-12-06 16:58:34   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Someone I feel rather suspicious of.
17-12-06 16:58:39   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   scroll is just a control change though?
17-12-06 16:58:59   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   it is
17-12-06 16:59:00   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    Usede to give an advantage...
17-12-06 16:59:16   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    sorry dweller
17-12-06 16:59:17   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   not when you use it to change rate of fire on a single shot weapon
17-12-06 16:59:23   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   np
17-12-06 16:59:35   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    But used on a pistol?
17-12-06 16:59:39   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   ^^
17-12-06 16:59:42   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Or semi auto.
17-12-06 16:59:45   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   rifle.
17-12-06 17:00:12   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   not on a pistol. makes a machine pistol
17-12-06 17:00:15   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    if it gives no advantage why use it?
17-12-06 17:00:16   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   ^^
17-12-06 17:00:49   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Scroll fire gives a devestating advantage. Why use it if not so?
17-12-06 17:01:15   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   machine gun gives advantage over semi auto though?
17-12-06 17:01:18   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    right then its a cheat at worst and sketchy at best.
17-12-06 17:02:04   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    Anyway just my opinion and that and 2 dollars will get you a coke.
17-12-06 17:02:26   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   you get more accuracy with say a carbine yet you get rapid fire..thus the problem
17-12-06 17:03:03   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:   will it work with shotguns?
17-12-06 17:03:05   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Carbines are difficult things to tell scroll fire from given their inherant high rate of fire.
17-12-06 17:03:08   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   maybe
17-12-06 17:03:32   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   have to pretty fast fingers
17-12-06 17:03:54   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   shot gun needs to be reloaded to often
17-12-06 17:04:11   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:   As to rapidfire, you could get jugger and rapidfire using a scroll bind, no?"
17-12-06 17:04:43   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Double tap yes, as I have with my pump action now.
17-12-06 17:04:57   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Faster rate of fire but not by a bind.
17-12-06 17:05:49   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:   I know but if it was on a bind you could pick another perk inaddition to the bind, right?
17-12-06 17:05:57   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   no
17-12-06 17:06:02   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   yes
17-12-06 17:06:16   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    essentially giving you 4 perks instead of three.
17-12-06 17:06:21   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   how so
17-12-06 17:06:26   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   if rapid fire gives advantage why is my deaths too high?
17-12-06 17:06:37   @134441 [Vrillion88] to TEAM:   QUICKMESSAGE_ENEMY_SPOTTED
17-12-06 17:06:44   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Because you are a bad shot. :P
17-12-06 17:06:49   @101331 [Someone7272] to ALL:   LOL!
17-12-06 17:06:54   @769 [Dweller] to ALL:   you can do a wheel bind without using a perk
17-12-06 17:06:57   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   still i dont cry about scroll controls
17-12-06 17:07:23   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    Say is use the bind, that gives me essentially rapidfire, then I choose jugger and marty and extra grenades, this gives me an advantage over someone without the bind...
17-12-06 17:07:27   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   I am still suspicious of you though, someone. Hand on heart, you are not using scroll bind?
17-12-06 17:07:48   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    suspicious of who, me?
17-12-06 17:07:53   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Someone
17-12-06 17:08:03   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   all you have changed is how fast you fire a single shot weapon
17-12-06 17:08:06   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Someone7272
17-12-06 17:08:07   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    Like is said, its sketchy at best.
17-12-06 17:08:07   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   i am in same room lol he doesnt scroll just fast clicks
17-12-06 17:08:21   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   ...
17-12-06 17:08:45   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    who wants their friends to think they are sketchy?
17-12-06 17:08:45   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Mice must cost you both a fortune.
17-12-06 17:09:10   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Nah. This is bull.
17-12-06 17:09:30   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:    What is creepy?
17-12-06 17:09:57   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   The two chaps using svts with the highest rate of fire and in the same room as each other.
17-12-06 17:10:16   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   Pardon me for my sceptisism, but understand why that might be so.
17-12-06 17:10:31   @133660 [[Some]Creepy_Goy] to ALL:   And my poor spelling. :P
17-12-06 17:11:35   @40166 [JEFFDOG] to ALL:   gg
17-12-06 17:11:35   @99774 [SFK-Louis51] to ALL:   gg
17-12-06 17:11:35   @85017 [Bpar_Hapoga] to ALL:   )
17-12-06 17:11:37   @137074 [Crackadin] to ALL:   gg
17-12-06 17:11:37   @85017 [Bpar_Hapoga] to ALL:   gg


After that on December 13, 2017 PST,  xChippy,  that would be me BTW,  recorded you and  Someone7272 using the same weapons fire enhancement. Here is a link to that recording:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjA3sx6_5--xkWamOdBhPhDD2GbV

 I then questioned you about it, and your reply was that it was caused by lag.  I told you what I thought of it, refreshed your memory about you saying it was fast clicking and you started joking about it. I went ahead and recommend that it should be turned off before the ban hammer strikes and you said sure. Then I told you to make sure it's not being used next time, and you told me I was suspicious. At the end I told you that you guys have been warned, and you said yes mr admin.  Copy of that chat log below:


17-12-13 18:10:36   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   elliot why does your weapon missfire?
17-12-13 18:10:43   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   lag
17-12-13 18:11:08   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   and someone also has a missfire, lag as well?
17-12-13 18:11:16   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   same internet connection
17-12-13 18:11:53   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   looks like rapid fire to me bruh
17-12-13 18:12:02   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   rapid fire?
17-12-13 18:12:18   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   rapid fire or scrollwheel
17-12-13 18:12:19   @134275 [Bulbajer] to ALL:   he means scrollwheeling
17-12-13 18:12:29   @134275 [Bulbajer] to ALL:   which is not allowed afaik
17-12-13 18:12:38   @139701 [RiOT-GUN] to ALL:   hEY...high
17-12-13 18:12:46   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   i thought you said it was fast clicking the other day, no?
17-12-13 18:13:01   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   other day its fast clicking and today its lag?
17-12-13 18:13:05   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   which one is it?
17-12-13 18:13:18   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   its fast clicking lol
17-12-13 18:13:29   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   jk
17-12-13 18:13:38   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   a good magician never reveals his secrets
17-12-13 18:13:58   @139619 [Hammerdown22] to ALL:   r
17-12-13 18:14:00   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   any type of rapid fire or scroll wheel is not allowed on this server
17-12-13 18:14:27   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   you guys should turn it off before the ban hammer strikes
17-12-13 18:14:45   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   sure
17-12-13 18:15:16   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:   rip
17-12-13 18:15:23   @115664 [WAOVERKILL] to TEAM:   QUICKMESSAGE_MOVE_IN
17-12-13 18:17:02   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   does Bm8 allow that on their servers?
17-12-13 18:17:04   @115664 [WAOVERKILL] to TEAM:   QUICKMESSAGE_FOLLOW_ME
17-12-13 18:17:06   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   i doubt it
17-12-13 18:17:08   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   bm8 have no more servers
17-12-13 18:17:19   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   what happened?
17-12-13 18:17:26   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   no one plays there anymore
17-12-13 18:17:43   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   thier servers are down?
17-12-13 18:17:53   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   still alive just nobody plays
17-12-13 18:19:27   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   alright well next time make sure the scrollwheel or rapid fire is not being used, thanks.
17-12-13 18:19:37   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   chippy you are suspicious
17-12-13 18:19:50   @138407 [Feminine] to ALL:   gg
17-12-13 18:19:51   @134275 [Bulbajer] to ALL:   gg
17-12-13 18:19:53   @58016 [Badger_Brock] to ALL:   gg
17-12-13 18:19:55   @137197 [--Chris--xd] to ALL:   gg
17-12-13 18:19:56   @139177 [JayRodd] to ALL:   GG
17-12-13 18:19:58   @2 [xChippy] to ALL:   you guys have been warned
17-12-13 18:20:04   @92681 [[Bm8]3ll1ot] to ALL:   yes mr admin


And finally on December 20, 2017 PST I recorded you and Someone7272 doing it again, so I went ahead with the recordings and banned both of you.  Demos can be downloaded below. The demos and chat log both prove that you guys were indeed not fast clicking, were not falsely accused and were warned  before being banned. And lets not mention that you lost all credibility after being questioned.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 05:12:31 PM by ~FS~Goodshot »

Offline S_7272

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Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 01:43:21 AM »
Doesn't matter if the enhancement is from a peripheral device such as a mouse, a  mouse wheel attack bind, game controller or from a mod menu. Attack must be bound to a single click peripheral for it to be allowed on our server, no exceptions.
;0o
Sorry guys, I didn't realise that the gaming mouse wasn't allowed. I didn't know what they meant by 'bind' or 'scrolling' so I ignored the discussion.

3ll1ot is actually my best mate (excuse the clan tag pun) - he comes to mine on Wednesdays so that's why we use the same IP.

I wasn't sure what Stealth_Mode (they didn't seem to be sure whether firing fast was allowed or not) meant but I feel that it should have been made clear - as published on the rules section.

xChippy wasn't wearing a clan tag either, I felt that this should have been outlined that they are an admin, and that the rules have been amended, before any action was taken.

I didn't find anything on the rules around the use of gaming mouse, but please could I suggest that the rules are reviewed and updated, to clearly prohibit the use of any peripheral which has a "turbo" mode.

As this was the case, I would only use fully auto weapons in the future as my mouse engages "turbo" mode if the button is clicked with too much pressure.

Thanks for reading and sorry for this.

Offline ~FS~Goodshot

Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 04:35:36 AM »
Fair enough. There has always been a grey area among the gaming community if whether or not a weapon fire enhancement should be allowed.  Most servers consider it to be cheating as far as I can remember.  Rules section has been updated.

Rule #1: No cheating or using hacks, no rapid fire, mouse wheel attack binds or using turbo to fire weapons.

Our admins are not required to wear tags to administrate our server.  You never know when an admin may be lurking in the background.  Using a gaming mouse is allowed as long as turbo is not used to fire weapons.  Fast clicking is allowed as long as your finger or other human appendage is doing the clicking.  Can you disable turbo mode on your mouse?  Can you please tell us what is the make and model of the mouse that you're using?

Offline S_7272

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Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 09:40:33 AM »
Fair enough. There has always been a grey area among the gaming community if whether or not a weapon fire enhancement should be allowed.  Most servers consider it to be cheating as far as I can remember.  Rules section has been updated.

Rule #1: No cheating or using hacks, no rapid fire, mouse wheel attack binds or using turbo to fire weapons.

Using a gaming mouse is allowed as long as turbo is not used to fire weapons.  Fast clicking is allowed as long as your finger or other human appendage is doing the clicking.  Can you disable turbo mode on your mouse?  Can you please tell us what is the make and model of the mouse that you're using?
Hi, thanks for understanding. At least now the rules are clearly defined and it is no longer a 'grey' area.

The mouse is a generic gaming mouse, branded 'Rapoo' which I purchased off AliExpress (online China outlet) a while ago. Unfortunately the label on the bottom has worn severely, so I can't tell you what model it is. But the left click has two levels of click, the first level is a normal click which will fire a single shot, but say if a player takes me by suprise, I have a heavy trigger finger, which can trigger second click level and this is what activates the turbo-mode. It will send 3 clicks for each second level click. Holding a second level click will spam the PC with mouse clicks, resulting in firing full auto.
There doesn't seem to be any option to disable this, I think this is implemented by hardware rather than software. There's also no 'mouse management' software installed and it shows up in Device Manager as a generic HID device.
It's most likely designed for those awful flash-based Facebook clicker 'games' so people can get a really high score on it.

I didn't really consider this as a factor as the other server I play on WaW does permit this. But I will bear this in mind. If I find that I can't disable this, then I'll switch to fully auto weapons or simply rebind the fire to the right mouse button which doesn't have this hardware feature.

Our admins are not required to wear tags to administrate our server.  You never know when an admin may be lurking in the background.

In the back of my mind, I did have a thought that xChippy was an admin, and I feel that we should have asked, however I never respond on the in-game chat because it can be distracting, especially when players feel the need to type in many brightly colored letters and also for the fear of getting banned for an unfortunate typo (I have seen this happen to many players).

On a final note, please can you help me with loading the demo files into CoD WaW, so I can record it to a video and forward this onto 3ll1ot. I have searched, managed to find out the command launch the demo, but I have no idea where to actually place the files.

Kind regards,

Dan

Offline TaterWhacker

Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2017, 10:58:21 AM »
What you want to do to find your demos is use the "run" program, or whatever the technical term is called. This is the way Ive always done it, dont know if there is a different way

1. Press the windows key(I assume its on your keyboard too) and the key "r" at the same time. This will bring up a little open bar thing.

2. in that you should type (%appdata%) without the paranthesis and hit OK

3. In the directory-bar thing you should see (Name)-AppData-Roaming. You are going to want to go back to AppData and click on the folder (Local). From there you should click on the folder titled (Activision), then on the folder (CoDWaW), THEN on the folder (players).

4. Here you should see a folder called (demos) without the paranthesis. If you dont have this folder, just create one titled that and put it in there. This is where you will put demos when you have downloaded them or recorded them with the feature in game.

Hope that helps with finding your demos and such.

Offline ~FS~Goodshot

Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 11:56:11 AM »
TY Tater that sure is a nice fast way to find the demos folder. We have a post with some additional info if needed.

http://fsclan.org/index.php?topic=5300.0

Also both bans have been lifted.  Glad that you guys understand the rules and that we were able to clear it up for other players. And good  to be able to confirm exactly what you guys were doing.

Offline ~FS~CapAzzKicKeR

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Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 02:37:38 PM »
My two cents...


xChippy wasn't wearing a clan tag either, I felt that this should have been outlined that they are an admin, and that the rules have been amended, before any action was taken.


If your game play depends on whether or not you see clan tags, you already know that what you're doing ain't gonna fly.


As far as revising the rules, do you really need everything spelled out to you?  Or, do you want everything spelled out so you can ride as far on the edge as you can get away with?




Offline S_7272

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Re: Falsely accused and now banned????
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 07:48:17 PM »
TY Tater that sure is a nice fast way to find the demos folder. We have a post with some additional info if needed.

http://fsclan.org/index.php?topic=5300.0

Also both bans have been lifted.  Glad that you guys understand the rules and that we were able to clear it up for other players. And good  to be able to confirm exactly what you guys were doing.

Thanks guys, I'm glad that this is now a defined rule. No more debates between players.
I'll see you on the other side of Christmas!

As far as revising the rules, do you really need everything spelled out to you?  Or, do you want everything spelled out so you can ride as far on the edge as you can get away with?

Okay, okay, please don't be too hard on me. I was only asking if I could make a recommendation to include this in the rules, so it would be uncontestable in future. Not sure I agree with spelling out. But more about knowing about whether it's allowed or not.

17-12-06 16:56:44   @8555 [[FS]Stealth_Mode] to ALL:   i would say that you may do so  but if another admin calls it listen to him

The players who were on at the time didn't seem to know either whether it was allowed or not, except for one player who was removed from the server for using abusive language.
Of course - this didn't fill me with much confidence, so I checked the rules and couldn't find anything relating to rapid fire.
This is why I have asked for the rules to be reviewed, as it's not fair on players if a rule becomes a grey area where some admins allow and some don't.
In other words, it becomes an implied rule, so it is assumed that you know it.
When a rule is not clearly defined, it will be broken and those who break said rule won't know what they've done wrong.
Imagine if a player who always has done this on other servers, joins FS and doesn't get told that this is prohibited - and the admin who is online at the time says that it's okay when asked. But a week later - they are banned for it.

It's always better to have consistency imo. But then again, maybe that's just me, yes, I am that kind of guy who reads the Ts&Cs word for word, just to consider every possible way that the author of the Ts&Cs can (and most likely will) rip me off.

I won't do this again as I really enjoy this server, it's one of the last good ones.

Hope you can see my side of the story and, have a good Christmas all.

 

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